So at some point in this blog on spirituality, this topic of damnation and hell have to get dealt with. There are so many other topics I'd rather deal with, but these points I raise helped create important shifts in my own spiritual journey and allowed me to move out of stagnant contentment with mere "beliefs" that had been unexamined. If you've turned your back on any sort of traditional religious-spirituality this is probably one of the top reasons, or at the very least it's something you mock. For others it's an awkard topic, leaving a bad taste in your mouth. Or maybe something you feel very strongly about and feel ok with (this is of course easier if you're on the "saved" side of the equation.) I was raised in a protestant evangelical Christian tradition but fortunately not in a "fire-and-brimstone" type. Still, as a "seeker" and with a conviction that we need spiritual, moral, mental and physical transformation, this topic of salvation/hell always seemed to come around at some point. And it can sure get a conversation heated (pun intended!).
Although the imaginary Q&A I outline later on is in the context of a Christian dialogue, this blog is intended for everyone and anyone, so take note there are some undeniable spiritual currents or similarities that recur in virtually all of the great religious traditions. See if this short, simple list resonates with you (and of course it's not the last word on the topic). This is from the book Integral Life Practice:
"Most of the traditions agree that:
1. Spirit, by whatever name, exists, and it is good, true, beautiful, and loving.
2. Spirit, although existing "out there," is also found "in here," revealed within to the open heart and mind.
3. Most of us don't realize this Spirit because we are living in separation, sin, or duality--that is, we are living in an illusory, fallen, or fragmented state.
4. There is a way out of this state (of illusion, separation, sin or disharmony)--there is a path to our liberation.
5. If we follow this path to its conclusion, the result is awakening, rebirth, salvation, or enlightenment, a direct experience of union with Spirit both within and without (and neither).
6. This supreme liberation marks the dissolution or transcendence of illusion, sin and/or suffering, and manifests in care and courage, service, social action, mercy, and compassion on behalf of the whole sentient Kosmos."
But what if we don't follow or discover or choose this "path"? Now there are different ways to talk about this "salvation," even within one tradition, and one of those protestant christian views is the belief that salvation is very much like a legal transaction. And if you are deemed guilty because of this "sin", you will be judged and eternally punished (ie. Hell). So let me flesh this troubling topic out as an imaginary conversation:
Q. A lot of people believe that humans are "born in sin." That it's some sort of pre-established spiritual condition that occured because of an "original sin" commited by our ancestors. How can you punish someone as a sinner if they're born that way--if that way of being is all they know?
A. Ah, well they still are born with free will and ultimately they will make a choice: God's way or their way.
Q. Free will? If they were born in a state of neutrality where they had the liberty to choose either sin or not, then it would truly be "free will." But how "free" is it if they are born in sin and predisposed to it?? The stakes are against them right from the start and it's hardly fair for God to hold them responsible for being in a "state" they never chose. I think this notion of being "free" to choose is a misnomer, but since you are convinced they have a choice, lets move on: How or Why do people make that choice? It seems to me that ulitmately it comes down to two possible reasons or causes:
1. Predestination: God gives us a boost. God does something to help certain individuals see, to help us want Spirit, to make it easier to choose this path or salvation.
Or,
2. Free Will: Somehow on my own I see "rightly". I make the right or good decision. There is something within me that helps me make this choice.
Now when considering how few people seem to have been predisposed to chose God, option #1 just seems unfair, or sick, or at the very least, lame/pathetic. And since this option seems ultimately up to God's perogative, why wouldn't he simply choose to predispose more or even all of us with that inclination for salvation?
Option #2 ultimately relies on some sort of determinism--why did that person choose the path? Well, because of X. And why did they have X and other people didn't? Well because of a prior Y that led to X. And why did they have a prior Y and not others? Well, a prior Z that led to Y. And this would go backwards infinitely, until something at their birth (ie. their personality or something they're born with), or pior to it (ie. something in their family's past or genetics, etc.). If it's something they're born with, that's ultimately God's doing. And if it's something prior to that, than it ultimately keeps regressing until Adam and Eve or a big bang--the explanation ultimately goes back to something God initiated.
So this leads to a 2ndary Question: How can God judge people when their eternal "choice" is essentially "determined" by something or someone outside of them? This not only seems unfair, but lacking in mercy, grace and love.
Q: Can God's judgment truly be greater than his Mercy, Grace and Love?
A: Well, the responsibility is in a woman's or man's hands. God showed excessive mercy by sending His own Son, Jesus, to die for the sins of the world. Now it's up to us to respond.
Q: So then what you're saying is that my salvation ultimately rests on my response, on my choice?
A: Yes.
Q: On me? My decision?
A: Yes.
Q: Then my salvation is dependent on my personal ability, or my desire, or my conviction to "receive" Jesus (as my Lord and Savior)? Or it depends on my ability to see that this is the right decision?
A: Yes! Don't hesistate.
Q: Then it is basically true that we are saved by something we do, whether it's something we think, or we decide to believe, or we willingly allow or make a shift in our heart. I have to do something. It doesn't just happen.
A: Right.
Q: Well, how is this any different than being saved "by works." I thought Christianity was all about how there isn't anything we can "do" to "get to" God?
A: No, no, this isn't about "earning" or doing anything. People are saved by "faith" alone.
Q: Where does this faith come from? How does it originate or germinate? Are we born with it or is it something we cultivate? Is it something from God? If so, does God supply faith to everyone? How does he decide? If the onus is on us, that seems to be free will and we're spiraling down that determinsm line. It it depends on him, that points to predestination.
If faith is something we muster up, and have "enough of," something originating in us by our own free will, then faith is really simply another "work"--only in this case an inward "work" of our spirit, soul, and mind.
Most Christians don't allow for salvation by works. And the idea of determinism seems to ultimately lead back to God's decisions/involvement and so ultiamtely some form of predestination.
So all options seem to lead to the idea of salvation being one form of predestination or another. Even though one's mind/heart might rebel at this (mind does), or even if you're ok with pre-destination, either way you have to deal with the apparent reality that most humans who have ever lived do not seem to have fit the criteria for having, at the very least, "accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior." Which means--according to the typical Christian paradigm--that God in his predestining, either didn't, couldn't, or wouldn't save most of humanity. So maybe God just wants quality, not quantity, and is ok with just a few making it. But any sort of eternal punishment for the rest of us makes this seems very very cruel. If God indeed wants a big "family" of sorts, than this minority of "saved" people seeems a total failure. And how can any notion of an eternal, all-powerful, all-knowing God include failure? And the Bible itself says both that "God is love" AND that "love never fails."
I am tempted to end here, on a good note: the rhetorical answer being that God doesn't fail. And the above Q&A's I feel are the strongest points. Below are some other problematic things to ponder as well.
The consequences of this choosing or not, seem important too.
Q: Is it possible for a mortal human being, bound in time, to truly comprehend the significance of a decision having eternal consequences? If it were possible, would you allow your 2 year old to make a decision that would affect their gettting into University or not, 16 years later?
Q: And if they really knew what or who they were rejecting (God and eternal life with God, a really good thing, no?) would anyone truly reject that? The only explanation would be that they didn't really know what they were rejecting and so how can they be held responsible for that or allowed to do that?
Q: In terms of hell as eternal punishment: most Christians believe that Absolute Monarchy (Theocracy: God as King) is the best form of Governement, and yet we uphold and promote democracy as the best form of government on earth. The reasoning being, I assume, that monarchy only works if the leader is godly or God himself. So while we're here we settle for imperfect democracy. But how is it that on earth we have prisons and punishment and in the afterlife this will continue (hell), only instead of the mercy of death, there will be eternal suffering?!? It is better to suffer by the hand of man than by the hand of God, since at least man will allow you to die. And man will allow you to get parole. And man might even help you rehabilitate. Is it really possible that man is more merciful than God, our loving creator??
Q: as a parent, isn't the point of punishment to correct your child's behaviour? To improve their morals, ethics, character? To help them become a better person? To grow up? Punitive justice is ultimately pointless, and a parent who simply punishes for the sake of punishing or being "right" would be seen as cold or cruel in light of any possibility of establishing Restorative Justice and restoring things to the way they were or to an even better state. What is the point of eternal punishment? And I realize we're talking about spiritual realities that possibly/likely can transcend rationality, but I still have to ask, how can pain be forever? Wouldn't the source of pain have to keep changing (otherwise you get used to it and it stops hurting)? Doesnt' this become more of a tormenting and torture? Even our human form of justice doesn't allow for this as good. How can God's justice inlclude it.
Q: And how good/enjoyable can "heaven" be if an eternal hell exists all along as well? Do we simply forget our experience and friends/family on earth?
Although the imaginary Q&A I outline later on is in the context of a Christian dialogue, this blog is intended for everyone and anyone, so take note there are some undeniable spiritual currents or similarities that recur in virtually all of the great religious traditions. See if this short, simple list resonates with you (and of course it's not the last word on the topic). This is from the book Integral Life Practice:
"Most of the traditions agree that:
1. Spirit, by whatever name, exists, and it is good, true, beautiful, and loving.
2. Spirit, although existing "out there," is also found "in here," revealed within to the open heart and mind.
3. Most of us don't realize this Spirit because we are living in separation, sin, or duality--that is, we are living in an illusory, fallen, or fragmented state.
4. There is a way out of this state (of illusion, separation, sin or disharmony)--there is a path to our liberation.
5. If we follow this path to its conclusion, the result is awakening, rebirth, salvation, or enlightenment, a direct experience of union with Spirit both within and without (and neither).
6. This supreme liberation marks the dissolution or transcendence of illusion, sin and/or suffering, and manifests in care and courage, service, social action, mercy, and compassion on behalf of the whole sentient Kosmos."
But what if we don't follow or discover or choose this "path"? Now there are different ways to talk about this "salvation," even within one tradition, and one of those protestant christian views is the belief that salvation is very much like a legal transaction. And if you are deemed guilty because of this "sin", you will be judged and eternally punished (ie. Hell). So let me flesh this troubling topic out as an imaginary conversation:
Q. A lot of people believe that humans are "born in sin." That it's some sort of pre-established spiritual condition that occured because of an "original sin" commited by our ancestors. How can you punish someone as a sinner if they're born that way--if that way of being is all they know?
A. Ah, well they still are born with free will and ultimately they will make a choice: God's way or their way.
Q. Free will? If they were born in a state of neutrality where they had the liberty to choose either sin or not, then it would truly be "free will." But how "free" is it if they are born in sin and predisposed to it?? The stakes are against them right from the start and it's hardly fair for God to hold them responsible for being in a "state" they never chose. I think this notion of being "free" to choose is a misnomer, but since you are convinced they have a choice, lets move on: How or Why do people make that choice? It seems to me that ulitmately it comes down to two possible reasons or causes:
1. Predestination: God gives us a boost. God does something to help certain individuals see, to help us want Spirit, to make it easier to choose this path or salvation.
Or,
2. Free Will: Somehow on my own I see "rightly". I make the right or good decision. There is something within me that helps me make this choice.
Now when considering how few people seem to have been predisposed to chose God, option #1 just seems unfair, or sick, or at the very least, lame/pathetic. And since this option seems ultimately up to God's perogative, why wouldn't he simply choose to predispose more or even all of us with that inclination for salvation?
Option #2 ultimately relies on some sort of determinism--why did that person choose the path? Well, because of X. And why did they have X and other people didn't? Well because of a prior Y that led to X. And why did they have a prior Y and not others? Well, a prior Z that led to Y. And this would go backwards infinitely, until something at their birth (ie. their personality or something they're born with), or pior to it (ie. something in their family's past or genetics, etc.). If it's something they're born with, that's ultimately God's doing. And if it's something prior to that, than it ultimately keeps regressing until Adam and Eve or a big bang--the explanation ultimately goes back to something God initiated.
So this leads to a 2ndary Question: How can God judge people when their eternal "choice" is essentially "determined" by something or someone outside of them? This not only seems unfair, but lacking in mercy, grace and love.
Q: Can God's judgment truly be greater than his Mercy, Grace and Love?
A: Well, the responsibility is in a woman's or man's hands. God showed excessive mercy by sending His own Son, Jesus, to die for the sins of the world. Now it's up to us to respond.
Q: So then what you're saying is that my salvation ultimately rests on my response, on my choice?
A: Yes.
Q: On me? My decision?
A: Yes.
Q: Then my salvation is dependent on my personal ability, or my desire, or my conviction to "receive" Jesus (as my Lord and Savior)? Or it depends on my ability to see that this is the right decision?
A: Yes! Don't hesistate.
Q: Then it is basically true that we are saved by something we do, whether it's something we think, or we decide to believe, or we willingly allow or make a shift in our heart. I have to do something. It doesn't just happen.
A: Right.
Q: Well, how is this any different than being saved "by works." I thought Christianity was all about how there isn't anything we can "do" to "get to" God?
A: No, no, this isn't about "earning" or doing anything. People are saved by "faith" alone.
Q: Where does this faith come from? How does it originate or germinate? Are we born with it or is it something we cultivate? Is it something from God? If so, does God supply faith to everyone? How does he decide? If the onus is on us, that seems to be free will and we're spiraling down that determinsm line. It it depends on him, that points to predestination.
If faith is something we muster up, and have "enough of," something originating in us by our own free will, then faith is really simply another "work"--only in this case an inward "work" of our spirit, soul, and mind.
Most Christians don't allow for salvation by works. And the idea of determinism seems to ultimately lead back to God's decisions/involvement and so ultiamtely some form of predestination.
So all options seem to lead to the idea of salvation being one form of predestination or another. Even though one's mind/heart might rebel at this (mind does), or even if you're ok with pre-destination, either way you have to deal with the apparent reality that most humans who have ever lived do not seem to have fit the criteria for having, at the very least, "accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior." Which means--according to the typical Christian paradigm--that God in his predestining, either didn't, couldn't, or wouldn't save most of humanity. So maybe God just wants quality, not quantity, and is ok with just a few making it. But any sort of eternal punishment for the rest of us makes this seems very very cruel. If God indeed wants a big "family" of sorts, than this minority of "saved" people seeems a total failure. And how can any notion of an eternal, all-powerful, all-knowing God include failure? And the Bible itself says both that "God is love" AND that "love never fails."
I am tempted to end here, on a good note: the rhetorical answer being that God doesn't fail. And the above Q&A's I feel are the strongest points. Below are some other problematic things to ponder as well.
The consequences of this choosing or not, seem important too.
Q: Is it possible for a mortal human being, bound in time, to truly comprehend the significance of a decision having eternal consequences? If it were possible, would you allow your 2 year old to make a decision that would affect their gettting into University or not, 16 years later?
Q: And if they really knew what or who they were rejecting (God and eternal life with God, a really good thing, no?) would anyone truly reject that? The only explanation would be that they didn't really know what they were rejecting and so how can they be held responsible for that or allowed to do that?
Q: In terms of hell as eternal punishment: most Christians believe that Absolute Monarchy (Theocracy: God as King) is the best form of Governement, and yet we uphold and promote democracy as the best form of government on earth. The reasoning being, I assume, that monarchy only works if the leader is godly or God himself. So while we're here we settle for imperfect democracy. But how is it that on earth we have prisons and punishment and in the afterlife this will continue (hell), only instead of the mercy of death, there will be eternal suffering?!? It is better to suffer by the hand of man than by the hand of God, since at least man will allow you to die. And man will allow you to get parole. And man might even help you rehabilitate. Is it really possible that man is more merciful than God, our loving creator??
Q: as a parent, isn't the point of punishment to correct your child's behaviour? To improve their morals, ethics, character? To help them become a better person? To grow up? Punitive justice is ultimately pointless, and a parent who simply punishes for the sake of punishing or being "right" would be seen as cold or cruel in light of any possibility of establishing Restorative Justice and restoring things to the way they were or to an even better state. What is the point of eternal punishment? And I realize we're talking about spiritual realities that possibly/likely can transcend rationality, but I still have to ask, how can pain be forever? Wouldn't the source of pain have to keep changing (otherwise you get used to it and it stops hurting)? Doesnt' this become more of a tormenting and torture? Even our human form of justice doesn't allow for this as good. How can God's justice inlclude it.
Q: And how good/enjoyable can "heaven" be if an eternal hell exists all along as well? Do we simply forget our experience and friends/family on earth?
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